Trump is Dangerously Close to Invalidating Godwin’s Law

© Josh Sager – March 2016

One of the informal rules of debating on the internet is “Godwin’s Law,” which deals with the hyperbolic invocation of Nazis during unrelated debates—here is a short summary of its two parts:

  1. As debates go on for longer and get more heated, the odds of a participant making a fallacious reference to Hitler or the Nazis increases.
  2. The first person to spuriously invoke Hitler or the Nazis in making their argument (e.g. comparing an opposing politician to Hitler) automatically loses the debate.


In most cases, this informal rule actually makes sense—few, if any modern situations can truly be compared to Hitler and the Nazis (ISIS, Boko Haram, and actual neo-Nazis are the only ones which readily come to mind)—but the recent campaigning by Donald Trump threatens to be a terrifying exception to the rule. This is made even more frightening by the fact that Trump is the clear front-runner in the GOP’s 2016 presidential primary.

Throughout his primary campaign, Donald Trump has tapped into a strain of fascistic populism which harkens back to the fascist movements of the 1930s. He built his campaign on a toxic brew of racism, misdirected outrage, and violent rhetoric that closely resembles that of several despots and extremists. While there is a legitimate argument that Trump’s vitriol and extremism is closer to that of Benito Mussolini and George Wallace than Adolph Hitler, this only provides paltry comfort.

To attract aggrieved racists and disaffected lower-middle class and poor voters, Trump has demonized undocumented immigrants and Muslims. He has blamed Mexican immigrants for stagnating wages, the heroin epidemic, and the high cost of social welfare programs, while levying personal attacks at the undocumented as a group (e.g. calling them criminals and rapists, accusing Mexico of sending their dregs over the border, etc.).


Trump’s rhetoric against Muslims has been even more extreme than his rhetoric over the undocumented. He has declared his support for a ban on all Muslim travel into the USA (including American Muslims who go on vacation abroad), the creation of a national registry of Muslims, the use of torture “worse than waterboarding” on suspected Islamic terrorists, and the official policy of murdering the families of Muslim terrorists.

In what has to be the most direct comparisons to Nazi Germany, Trump has also refused to rule out requiring Muslims to carry a type of special ID that includes their religion and has supported closing Mosques that he deems to be radical. He also has accidentally retweeted Nazi and neo-Nazi quotes (he agreed with their sentiment and didn’t pay attention to the source), as well as quotes from Mussolini.

Put simply, these policies are reminiscent of the policies that Hitler and the Nazis pushed at the start of their rise to power. Instead of Muslims and Mexicans, they targeted Jews, Rom, gays, and several other groups, but the central ideas behind these policies are the same. They are all based around displacing anger at an “other” (usually a racial or ethnic minority with little economic power) and using this anger to gain more political power.

In addition to using bigoted, fascistic, rhetoric, Trump has actively promoted political violence, which is another key hallmark of fascism. He famously promised to pay for the legal fees of a supporter who punches hecklers in the face during one of his events (although he reneged on this once a protester took him up on it), and has refused to condemn those who have committed violence in his name.

Violence has become endemic to Trump rallies and events. Protesters—most of whom are racial minorities—have been forcibly removed from dozens of Trump events, sometimes by crowds of angry supporters. These supporters have spit, kicked, punched, and thrown protesters to the ground, oftentimes while shouting racist rhetoric—in several cases, this rhetoric has included overtly Nazi rhetoric, including “seig heil” salutes and shouts of “go to Auschwitz” against protesters. The press has not been immune to this violence and reporters have repeatedly been assaulted at Trump events.


Just today, Trump declared that there would be riots and “bad things would happen” if was denied the presidential nomination after winning the most delegates during the primary. While he said that he wouldn’t personally be leading these riots, the clear subtext is that he will incite his most unstable supporters to do his dirty work for him.

In totality, the rise of Trump to the head of the GOP’s 2016 ticket illustrates a disturbing trend towards fascism in the United States. Trump is using fascist populism and rhetoric, and has promised to enact Nazi-esque policies if elected to office. What has once an amusing political side show (Trump immolating the GOP from within) has become a terrifying window into the right wing’s id—fascism is alive and well, and, if the polls are any indication, it is entirely possible that it may be within throwing distance of the White House come November.

24 thoughts on “Trump is Dangerously Close to Invalidating Godwin’s Law

  1. I suggest you and your communist friends to start packing your shit. No one believes your lies, name calling. We have seen it in Chicago and at the Ben Shapiro’s speech in UCALI Los Angeles who the true fascists are….


  2. “Name calling”, huh? Fascists worry that someone might call them names or criticise them. The rest of us worry about the beatings, torture, deportations and war the fascists threaten. You talk about killing people for protesting and then claim YOUR free speech is under attack. No one is buying your claim to victim status and you haven’t seen 1/100th of the backlash that is coming.


  3. I am not Trump supporter, however I can’t say his comments about rioting were coded requests to his followers to riot if the party denies his nomination at the convention should he enter with the most (but not an outright majority) of delegates. I only say this, because yesterday after Kasich won Ohio, a self-described democrat pundit on CNN said it would happen first. With Trump’s supporters already overwhelmingly calling for the burning down of the establishment system, while not really caring what goes up in its place, I think Trump is just rightly predicting the outcome of a brokered convention denying him a nomination and the violent outrage of his supporters that would surely follow. Remember, Trump supporters do not understand that nominating conventions are for the party and are very undemocratic. They would see it as the theft of a right they never had. They are violent enough and crazy enough to take it personally. If a democrat can worry about it on CNN the night before, why when Trump says it, is it an issue? This may be the only time I side with Trump, but predicting a likely and scary outcome does not equate to inciting it.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Trump is certainly appealing to the worst instincts and least thoughtful mindsets of people. He uses meaningless vague phrases “Make America Great Again” which are code for rolling back progress for minorities, women and workers. He makes utterly stupid suggestions, like forcing Mexico to spend billions or trillions to build a “wall” and lies repeatedly. For example, saying that thousands of Muslims were celebrating 9/11 in the streets of New Jersey.
    He, like Hitler and Mussolini, uses scapegoats and unsubstantiated claims to appeal to the prejudices of his followers.
    He uses very simplistic language , “bad people”, which is appealing to those who do not have the energy or intellect to investigate the complexity of political and economic reality. (Hitler used the Jews. Trump uses the Muslims and Mexicans). He pretends to support “working Americans” yet has lobbied successfully for tax breaks for his own multi-million dollar financial network. He talks about honesty yet has on 3 or 4 times screwed his honest creditors by filing bankruptcy, harming them while protecting his own financial interests. He pretends to be a financial genius, yet refuses to release his tax records.
    But still some folks flock to him like sheep to the slaughter.
    Most telling Trump quote: “I LOVE the uneducated”. You’re damn right he does.


  5. I frequently bring up Hitler, because it is the best way to describe the conservative Christian movement that has always tainted the USA. In fact, the right-wing has been in awe of the power Hitler had over the masses. This is nothing new. Read ‘The Family’, it exposes some of what I am stating. Though coming out in support of Hitler, during his reign, was at a time that you would not be the wisest to tell others of your support for his actions, so, demonizing him, like a closet case homo demonizes gays, is the best way to keep others, from pointing a finger at those actually guilty, though many see right through this ploy. What people are hearing Trump say today, is nothing knew. When GW Bush was running for president, and whenever Conservatives open their mouths generally, I have often suggested people take a quote from Hitler, and instead of using the word “Jew”‘ replace it with “gay”, “Muslim” or even “woman”, “immigrants”, “blacks”…. In fact, at one time you could use “mixed marriages” (people from two different religions or people of two different skin colors), and you will find that, whoever is spewing hatred for the minority of the time, sounds exactly like Hitler. It isn’t a personal opinion, it is fact, and ignoring this has brought us to this very place. Like Hitler’s rise, it did not happen over night.


  6. Yeah, the similirities between the rise of Hitler and the rise of Trump are embarrassingly obvious, but irrelevant. Things in America aren’t nearly as bad as they were in Post WWI-era Germany. While Trump has a much bigger audience than Hitler ever had, he’s polling well within but a fraction of potential American voters.

    A few tiny bigoted demographics that have found a shameless leader to carry their collective shame, while at the same time sealing their own doom because they’ve hijacked a political party that overtly wants nothing to do with Trump.

    He’s inspiring more Americans to vote against him than for him, and he’s probably very well aware of that. Donald Dump just might inadvertently save our piss poor version of Democracy.


  7. Liberals fear Trump because he uses common sense, a concept that they just can’t grasp.

    I would think that being Jewish, you would have studied The Third Reich and would have a better understanding of it. When did Trump ever say that Republicans are the master race? When did he ever say that he wants to have a holocaust to exterminate Muslims? Instead of pouncing on the weak argument that Trump is a racist like a pack of stray dogs on a bone, why don’t you try to examine his actual stance on the issues and why you believe he is not the best choice for our next president?

    By the way. A border wall IS entirely possible.

    Not all racial minorities oppose Trump. There are many who have thought it through and realize that more immigrants (legal or illegal) means less jobs, more crime and more burden on social services which will result in delays and or cuts to benefits for Americans. Also, don’t under estimate the value of celebrity status. Who would have thought that California, a liberal haven, would have elected Arnold Swarzeneggar (Republican) not once, but twice?


    • “Liberals fear Trump” LMFAO. Liberals know he is playing right to the base like Sarah Palin, GW Bush and all others trying to get votes from the most uneducated, those who support dictator, both, people who follow conservative ideology. Again LMFAO


  8. I recommend Hughes trilogy on the Third Reich as the best and most thorough work. Hitler did not call initially for the elimination of Jews, as anyone who has studied the Third Rich knows. He called for the deportation of the Jews. He called for sending them out of Germany, then out of Europe. Over time that rhetoric became more strident. But, like Trump, he originally called for exportation of a particular ethnic/religious group. Only when he became entrenched in power did he devise the Holocaust strategy. So, Trump’s rhetoric about “Muslim problem” and his “solution” is the same as Hitler’s rhetoric and solution to the “Jewish problem”. Exportation of the “undesirables”.So, Trumps’s “actual stance ” on Muslims is exactly Hitler’s “actual stance” on Jews. Hard to imagine that anyone thinks deporting millions of people based on their ethnicity is “common sense”.

    Best estimates for the cost of the fantasy wall. $8,000,000,000- 10,000,000,000 just for the concrete reinforced panels. That does not include the cost of the labor, machinery, etc. to actually put up the 2,000 mile wall. What do you suppose the labor and machinery costs will be? Estimated time at least 4 years.Of course, then you have to have a constant border patrol on the wall. After all, some of those Mexicans may have heard of dynamite. 2,000 miles of constant 24/7 patrols, along with a number of 24/7 military forces available to stifle any breach. Of course, that does not account for tunnels. For regular maintenance. And for the regular repairing of the holes caused dynamite , the sections collapsing due to tunneling under the foundation. Of course, much of the border is desert and mountains, so building a “fence” is those environments would be even more costly and more difficult to maintain. All the while whining about how high taxes are. LOL, So,,,yepper…Trump is a man of “common sense”.

    It is true that celebrity status is important. Why anyone would think that “celebrity” status is a qualification for office is beyond me. But that seems to be the ONLY qualification Trump can claim. Which is why the most famous quote remains the one which characterizes his popularity. After his victory in Nevada, where he easily won the ignorant vote he exuded:
    “We won with the poorly educated. I love the poorly educated”. You better believe he does. The poorly educated are his base.

    Deport an ethnic group (Hitler). Build a wall (East Berlin). Vie for the votes of the uninformed. (Tea Party platform). Common sense? Hardly.


    • Yet again you have put your hands to your keyboard without thinking first and have made a fool out of yourself. Have you actually read anything about Hitler? Hitler did not call for the deportation of the Jews so that they could just live somewhere else. He considered them to be less than human and called for their imprisonment and removal to the east in order to be used as slave labor to expand the Third Reich. It was after eastward expansion seemed unlikely that he ordered their extermination. Maybe you have heard of this little thing called THE LAW? Trump has called for the deportation of ILLEGAL aliens. Many of whom are violent criminals who evaded Mexican authorities and all of which are in violation of federal law every day they are here. That is a FACT that you are incapable of disputing. THAT is the basis for deporting them and has been for decades. Trump has called for a temporary halt of immigration of Muslim refugees because of the potential threat of terrorists hiding among them which the people of France will confirm is a possibility. Common sense. When did Trump ever say that Mexicans or Muslims are subhuman and should all be placed in concentration camps so that Doctor Mengele could experiment on them or that they should be gassed and have their flesh made into lampshades? Evidence? Yeah, I thought not.

      I included the video about the wall to show that unlike ancient aliens, a bridge from Hawaii to California or climate change, a wall along the US and Mexico border is not fiction or fantasy and actually is possible. The video discusses a scenario where a wall would be built along the entire 1,954 miles of the border. This is the most expensive option, but not the only one. Are you aware of these things called maps? I suggest you find one. The US and Mexican border is comprised of four states, California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. California’s portion is 137 miles, Arizona’s is 389 miles, New Mexico’s is 210 miles and Texas has the remaining and longest portion. If you would look, you will see that the border between Texas and Mexico is comprised of the Rio Grande which is a river in case you were not aware. There isn’t really a point in building a wall there when a fence on the US side with river boat patrols would be sufficient . Nor would it be wise to tunnel under it and dynamite is not very effective on water. At least you remembered that the US has a military that can patrol the border. However, you seem to have forgotten these specially trained people known as snipers who have all kinds of fancy high tech optics that can even provide a sight picture to shoot in the dark. These can be highly effective when used against anyone who would attempt to breach the wall with dynamite. Don’t believe that? Just ask all the insurgents who encountered US snipers in Iraq and Afghanistan. Oh wait, you can’t because they’re dead. Are you aware of that each of those four states has its own Army National Guard and Air National Guard? Texas goes even further and has a third branch known as the Texas State Guard which also has aviation and maritime capabilities. American military serving their country overseas is one thing, but service men and women who are protecting their own home state’s borders and US border at the same time are definitely a force to fear. This could be paid for and maintained using the money that the US normally has to spend on illegal aliens every year.

      Don’t believe that walls have ever worked?

      I don’t see how you think that Trump has no qualifications. His business success speaks for itself. Plus, he has the advantage of not being a career politician that is essentially owned by lobbyists and does not need anyone to give him money. Barrack Obama is a lawyer who served 7 years in the Illinois State Senate and then only 4 years as US senator and yet you voted for him twice. Yes you did. Don’t even try to deny it. I believe that when Trump made his statement in Nevada, he was actually making fun of liberals who claimed that Trump’s supporters are poorly educated and was not ridiculing his own base. When ever a liberal loses an argument (a frequent occurrence) they may attempt to hide behind the old myth that liberals are more intelligent than conservatives as they retreat. If memory serves me correct, I believe you have divulged that you attended college in the 1970’s. However, I don’t seem to recall if you mentioned that you actually graduated. I will just give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you managed to squeak by. It doesn’t appear to have made a positive difference on you. You are perhaps the most obtuse person that I have ever encountered. In case you are wondering, I possess a BA degree which is required for my field of employment.

      What are your plans if Trump does get elected? This article may interest you. It speaks of the original Old Liberal. Enjoy.


      • Joe Citizen, I wonder why it is ALWAYS conservatives who throw out the first personal attacks when debating on line, yet it is conservatives who claim it’s Liberals……u are a hoot, and by calling yourself Joe Citizen, you may as well call yourself Joe The Plumber. …. LMFAO. What, too afraid to use your real name.


      • Joseph IS my first name as it my father’s and my grandfather’s before me. Of course, Citizen is not may last name just like cpmondello is not even close to your name. Are you on a NSA watch list perhaps? LMFAOROTF! Senor josephurban and I have locked horns before. The personal attacks have been ongoing.


  9. Joe Citizen. Once again you prove the old adage. “A little learning is a dangerous thing”.
    Regarding Hitler (incorrectly referenced Hughes, the best trilogy on the Third Reich is by Evans) you are evidently unaware of any events that took place before 1941. Let me help you out. Hitler allowed and encouraged the exodus of the Jews from Germany. Hundreds of thousands of Jews were allowed to leave . They went to various parts of Europe and the US. Perhaps you need to do some research. There was even an agreement between Hitler and the Zionists to move Jews out of Germany into Palestine. Evidently you have never heard of the Haavara Transfer Agreement. Look it up. The actual death camps came later, long after Hitler had set the tone by dehumanizing and calling for the EXPULSION of the Jews. Sound familiar? That is EXACTLY what Trump is saying about the “Muslims”. Send them back to where they “came from”.
    Perhaps you might want to start with Hitler’s “Jewish Question” speech of January 30, 1939. The one in which he criticizes the US and the rest of Europe for refusing to accept Jews from Germany. In that speech he alludes to what may happen if the Jews are not given refuge in other places. Trump echoes those remarks when he demands the exportation of Muslims based on nothing other than their religious beliefs. Eventually his rhetoric got more and more belligerent and he did put Jews in camps. But that came later. As I said. “A little learning is a dangerous thing”.
    I see a similar problem when people discuss the Civil War (The War of Northern Aggression. LOL) and the War of Independence. A grade school text book understanding of history is fine. For grade school. And a recent analysis of Trump’s language does put his speeches at the 5th grade reading level. Nevertheless we need to develop a more sophisticated understanding of the past to fully recognize what is happening in the present.

    I am glad you have figured out, (unlike Mr Trump) that a wall across the entire border is not only unnecessary but impractical. Congratulations. And I am glad that you agree with me that a constant patrol of the border , which is extremely expensive, is the only way to insure a protected border. Unfortunately you have failed to provide any cost estimate of the wall, border patrol boats, rapid response teams, etc. According to an article in the Wash Post, the latest estimate from structural engineers would put the cost at over $ 25,000,000,0000. Certainly affordable. It would simply be transferring the cost of a couple planes from the military. And no matter what structure was put up it would have to be constantly patrolled. (which is why patrols, without a wall, is more practical and cheaper) The day-to-day costs of maintaining, etc. have not been estimated. But it would create tens of thousands of jobs.

    Regarding Trump’s qualifications. How does having a TV show translate into being responsible for nuclear weapons? Regarding his business “success”. Are you aware that he has filed bankruptcy at least 3 times? Stiffing his creditors. How does that translate into managing the world’s biggest economy? How does being CEO of a family funded company compare with having to compromise with demands of Congress, the military, religious groups, etc. (Hint: You can’t fire Congress or the people).
    What is even funnier is the idea that Trump is some “genius” financial investor. Did you know that Trump claims his investments have DOUBLED since 1998. He has TWICE as much money now ! Of course, if he had NOT invested and simply put his money in a money market account tied to the S&P or put it in a Mexican Fund he would have done much better. By managing his own investments he lost wealth in relation to the market. LOL.

    So, we have a guy who knows nothing about foreign policy. Is a terrible business man. (Luckily he inherited his wealth). Actually lost money on casinos (A very difficult thing to do). And insults women, people of different religions and ethnicities.
    These are qualifications for being the POTUS? Might as well vote for one of the Three Stooges.


    • The Jewish population of Germany were not terrorists who posed any threat. They merely made Hitler feel insecure because of their success in business and it was a personal matter for him. Today, Muslim immigrants have been proven to be a major security risk and intensive screening and surveillance of them is just the right thing to do for public safety. A wall extending from Tijuana/San Diego to El Paso is very practical and you under estimate the amount of armed citizens who would rush to volunteer if allowed to do so. Illegal aliens would probably fear them more than the police or the military.

      So that’s how you have so much time to spend on your blog and also comment on Mr. Sager’s and who knows where else. Your a financial genius and are more wealthy than Donald Trump! Although, reality television on a major network is highly profitable so taking advantage of his fame to host 14 seasons of The Apprentice made great business sense.

      By the way. You CAN fire members of Congress. Although, it is a lengthy process. Don’t forget that their constituents can also recall elected officials just like Second Amendment supporters did in Colorado in 2013.

      Besides having a father born in Kenya, what qualifications does Obama have in regards to foreign policy? It sure is a good thing that US presidents have advisors. We have already had the Three Stooges in office. Carter, Clinton (impeached by the House for perjury in 1998) and Obama.


  10. Joe Citizen ( I notice you do not dispute my facts about Hitler’s Jewish expulsion remarks ) I have no problem incarcerating anyone who has demonstrated allegiance to ISIS or who can be shown to be a “security risk”. But, I do not think you are suggesting that ALL or a MAJORITY or even a significant minority of the 3,3000,000 Muslims are in that category. I take your point that Hitler used the excuse that Jews were part of the international Jewish conspiracy to take over the world. But isn’t Trump using the same type of excuse to cast Muslims as part of an international Muslim conspiracy? Don’t you see the parallels? In both cases the politician is using a handy ethnic or religious group as a scapegoat. And calling for treating people not as individuals but as stereotypes. A very dangerous road to follow.

    Regarding the wall. (I notice that you do not contradict my main point about the original and ongoing cost of the border security) No doubt many vigilantes would volunteer to kill people. That is obvious. And that goes to a deeper issue. What kind of society do we want to build. One in which vigilante justice is the norm or one in which we use legal means too achieve goals? (And why would you think that those trying to cross the border might not also have weaponry to return fire?) The wall and the necessary costs of maintaining it MAY be something the American people want to pay for. But the real costs need to be honestly derived at and taken into account. As well as an honest look at the cost-benefit ratio. Mr Trump has never suggested how much the “wall” and added security would cost. He only says he will “make Mexico pay” for it. Really?

    Regarding my blog comments. I find Mr Sager’s blog always provides evidence and data to support his opinions. Mine, less so. Mine is meant to be more snark. Why someone who is responding to a blog post criticizes me for responding to a blog post can only be understood in view of Einstein’s theory of relativity and the bending of space and time.

    As has been documented in many places (including such conservative publications as the Wall Street Journal and Business Insider as well as Politici-fact) Mr Trump’s investments, in relation to the overall general economic climate, have been failures. Even by his own (many suspect inflated) claims about his own wealth, his investments have been significantly less successful than the average money market account. That is a financial fact. Can’t get around it. His main selling point is that as a smart business man he can manage the economy. The track record shows the opposite. Let me give you specific examples:
    1. In 1988 Trump bought the Plaza Hotel for $390 million. By 1992 he was over $550 million in debt. HAd to file bankruptcy for reorganization.
    2.In 1991 Trump built the $ 1 billion Taj Mahal Casino. In one year’s time it was $3 billion in debt. Bankruptcy reorganization.
    3.By 2004 4 the Trump Hotel and Casino Resorts once again had to restructure debt (bankruptcy) because it was over $ 1.8 billion in debt.
    4. Trump Entertainment Resorts, another massive debt forcing another reorganization under the bankruptcy laws. Missed a $53 million debt payment. Trump forced to resign in disgrace.
    You are correct to say that I am not a millionaire. I have been a working man all my life. But, unlike Mr Trump, I pay ALL my debts, don’t take on more than I can afford and have never screwed a creditor. My definition of “success” is not the same as Mr Trump’s.
    The idea that because a man has a TV show he is a financial genius is not good evidence. If that were the case perhaps Big Bird should be running for POTUS.

    Regarding the comment about “firing members of Congress”. I was referring to Mr Trump and his ability to fire people who work for him if they disagree. He cannot do that to Congress. He cannot bully Congress. He has to compromise.

    You make a good point about Mr Obama’s foreign policy experience. Like Mr Bush and Mr Clinton before him, he had little. Which is why they depend on advisers. While he inherited a military and social catastrophe in the Middle East he was able to get us out of it, for the most part. He has made a couple mistakes, in Libya and Syria, but has not made the error of committing combat troops. Which POTUS did that? So, you are correct that the POTUS depends on advisers. Who would Mr Trump be depending on for foreign policy advice? According to his latest press release.
    Walid Phares…A Fox news regular and a guy who believes that Shari’a Law is possible in the US. Wants to deport Muslims.
    George Papodaopoulus….an oil and energy consultant.
    Joe Schmitz…an executive at the “guns for hire” Blackwater military group.
    Retired General Keith Kellogg….vice president of defense contractor Cubic…
    All in favor of a very aggressive, military-oriented foreign policy, especially in regards to the oil industry. Not hard to see where this is going. All support using military force as a primary avenue for achieving goals. Not a diplomat or expert in foreign affairs among them.

    NB: Not a single personal attack.


    • I have to ask. Do you spend so much time typing that you don’t watch the news?

      Were you not aware of this?

      You do realize that a wall will not only impede Mexicans don’t you? It will stop people of all nationalities from entering our country illegally.


      • JoeC. Do you realize you are demonstrating my point with your video? Here we have a concrete structure in a highly populated area under constant police supervision. Airports world wide are the most solid and most patrolled structures on earth.
        But even an airport can be easily blown apart by a few guys with modern explosives. And you think that a wall across a desert or mountain will somehow be impregnable? You think that while a highly guarded airport can be demolished that a 1400 mile wall will some how be immune from explosives? If anything your post supplies evidence of just how impractical and ineffective a wall is. Thanks.


      • Actually, I did predict what your response would be and was prepared. I have never been to Brussels. However, I am pretty sure that the airport did not have a no Muslims policy. Perhaps a wall along the Belgian border could have prevented this. Personally, I would rather have terrorists or illegal aliens blow up a section of a wall in a desert far away from US citizens homes which would be detected immediately by forces patrolling the area and responded to promptly than to have these individuals cross undetected. Of course, the possibility of an airport attack in the US is remote thanks to the Patriot Act.

        I can understand why someone would want to help someone else who is be unfairly discriminated against. However, that is not the case with Muslim immigrants. Islam is a religion of hate and violence and surveillance is needed. It doesn’t make sense that you would put the meager amount of personal satisfaction that you would receive from what you consider to be a humanitarian point of view over the lives of innocent people. Sadly, more attacks in Europe will follow. It will be interesting to see just how much the Europeans will tolerate before they finally take matters into their own hands.


  11. Joe C. You seem to always “change” the discussion instead of directly answering my points. For example> The short and long term cost of a wall and increased security? Perhaps it is because Mr Trump has never been able to explain how much this would cost, both initially and on a annual basis? I think it is very important for a potential POTUS to provide realistic and practical solutions, don’t you? For example, I could say: I think we need to kill all the terrorists. (Something I think would be a positive step). But with no plan or cost analysis that statement becomes just hot air. I don’t really blame you for not being able o give real answer because Trump and others have not provided anything other than hot air on the “wall” issue.

    Regarding a “no-Muslim” policy. How , EXACTLY, would that work? Since there are at least 3,300,000 US citizens (including at least one member of Congress) who are Muslims, what should happen to them? What are the specifics of the plan? You might start by explaining to me how you identify a “Muslim”. What are the characteristics (Hair color? nose shape? clothing style?) that indentifies one as a “Muslim”?

    As in all discussions of “solutions” the devil is in the details. So let us start by telling us what you think should happen to the 3,300,000.

    (By the way, I agree with you that Islam, Christianity, Judaism and Buddhism all have members who advocate violence and terror. That is a fact of history.)


    • FINALLY! It seems as though you are starting to get it. Killing all the terrorists would be a positive step. We may make you one of us yet. Most liberals eventually become conservative as they age.

      I am not saying that we need a 1,954 mile wall. Just a 736 mile wall in California, Arizona and New Mexico and a fence with river patrols for Texas. Financing it could be easily achieved through a combination of seizure and liquidation of any Mexican assets held by the US government, elimination of government waste (there is PLENTY of that), the sale of surplus government property, discontinuing foreign aid and cessation of all benefits and government assistance to all illegal immigrants living in the US. I almost forgot, we can also increase the taxes on alcohol and marijuana to get the liberals to pay their share. Unlike a government which survives on taxes, a business must watch its spending and earn its money. That is why a business professional is the wise choice to run a government. We have more than enough military personnel and equipment to patrol the border that are already in service and readily available. It’s just a matter of proper deployment. Plus, we have plenty of incarcerated convicts that would work to build the wall for free if doing so would earn them an early release or newly convicted criminals who would gladly work for free in exchange for avoiding incarceration.

      The Muslims to which I have been referring are the ones who are not already here and include terrorists. The “here” to which I refer is the United States of America that was founded, built and maintained by Christians who love peace, but will not hesitate to use whatever violence is necessary to protect themselves and their country. This knowledge is what helps to ensure that the 3,300,000 or so Muslims living in the US behave themselves. THAT is a fact of history.


  12. Joe C. Targeting terrorists is exactly what Mr Obama has focused on. And what “liberals ” have been calling for since 9/11. Not invading countries that had nothing to do with 9/11, but actually killing the people responsible for acts of terror. I am glad that we agree with Mr Obama on that one. Just this week two more high level terrorists were killed in focused attacks. That is the way to go. That has been the policy of Obama since day one. We agree on that, at least.

    Regarding your position on a wall. I think Mr Trump wants to do the entire border, but that is his problem, not yours. To what extent a wall would help is open to debate, as opposed to other tactics, but that’s okay. Paying the billions each year is still the issue. So, let’s see if your ideas are practical.
    You want to raise taxes on alcohol? OK. Not sure how much that would bring in. Have to do an analysis. You want a federal tax on booze? Including wine? There would be quite a push back from the alcohol lobby. But possible. I agree that legalizing and taxing marijuana is a great idea. That could bring in a lot of dollars. So, now we have found two points of agreement so far.
    I don’t think seizing Mexican assets in the US would be smart idea. I don’t have the numbers but I have to believe that US investment in Mexico is much much greater than Mexican investment in the US. Mexico would retaliate and the results would be devastating for US business. A non-starter, i think.
    Eliminating government “waste” is always good. Except that what is “waste” to one Congressman is “investment” to another. For example, when Bush AND the Pentagon wanted to close a military base here in NY, the local reps went crazy because it would cost jobs. So, Bush backed down. Was that “waste”? Same with Obama, When he cut excessive payments (waste) to providers under Medicare our local rep (Tom Reed) called it a “cut to Medicare” implying it was cutting “services” when it was just dropping payments. The politics of “cutting waste” is complex and difficult to manage. A good idea, but a probably a non-starter.
    Cutting “foreign aid” is another possibility you mentioned. The problem with “foreign aid” is, once again, a domestic one. A great deal of “foreign aid” is military hardware , built by US arms manufacturers and bought by the US and sent overseas. It is a big part of the US economy. So, it would cost plenty of jobs. That is part of the dilemma of “foreign aid”. it is not just charity, it is part of the US economic engine. Over the years military contractors like Boeing have made sure that parts of their planes are built in every state of the union. Cut the aid, you lose local jobs. Again, I don’t disagree , as long as we are willing to accept the economic consequences of failed businesses and higher unemployment.
    Regarding selling of US land. On that one we disagree. I tend to support that old Republican Teddy Roosevelt. He instituted the public park system because he thought that we should be stewards of the land and that future generations need places to enjoy nature. As out society becomes more urbanized we need public land more than ever. So on that one, we disagree.

    I see you disagree with Trump and Cruz on the Muslim deportation surveillance issue. I agree with you that the Muslims living here should “behave themselves”. I assume you would also include “Jews, Christians, atheists”, etc. ALL of us should “behave ” ourselves. I would suggest that the overwhelming number of gun deaths each year (about 35,000) are NOT the work of Muslims, but other Americans. No problem. So, I agree.
    I also agree that we should keep potential terrorists out of the US. (As well as monitor those with violent backgrounds who are living here IN the US) . The problem, of course, is that you cannot know anything about a person based on how they look, dress ,etc. Example. Let’s say the US passes a law saying that no Muslims can enter. Do you NOT think a real terrorist is simply going to say: I am a Christian.? Do your think they are stupid? There is no easy “screening” process. Which is why it takes 2 years for refugees to gain admittance. In fact, the refugees are the most likely NOT to be terrorists because they have to undergo so much inspection. Simple solutions to complex problems sound good, but the devil is always in the details.

    You will notice that I did not use “labels” but responded to specific ideas. I find that using labels (which I admit I sometimes do) clouds the issues by putting people in boxes. I believe in “liberal” principles that must be applied pragmatically. Solutions are never “general” but always involve specific actions. That is where I fault both Trump and Cruz. Both men, in my opinion, have either vague or dangerous solutions to complex issues.


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